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2ctiby
modified 8 years ago

Crossover shootthrough current reduction .... in high power switching CMOS

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01:59:56
Top left circuit: Simple CMOS setup..... but look at the current meter in orange there ! In the very short time that one Mosfet opens with the other Mosfet closing, there is a brief crossover whereby a short-circuit occurs passing extreme current from top to bottom.....it is called Shootthrough and is likely to blow a Mosfet....This circuit is inadequate for the task. Bottom right circuit: Bottom left Nmos acts as a Level Shifter with the resistors and diode to set the left CMOS in action as before. The 1MΩ resistor between the two CMOS drains however, greatly reduces any crossover shootthrough current. The CMOS on the right now has very restricted μA shootthrough seen in the green meter there. Values can be varied as reqd. It's the overall structure which we are looking at to reduce shootthrough, whilst enabling an equally balanced available power final output. (at 30v either side of zero here). All Mosfets used are standard with 3v/-3v VTO Note1... I had to place a tiny resistor with the amp meter in the top left circuit to prevent EC locking out with infinite shootthrough. See how even such a tiny resistor placed on that Source side prevents the full action of the Mosfet bar.....Keep the Source connected directly to supply (often a zero, but -30v here). The 3v VTO is fine, but remember that the Mosfet there will start to conduct when the gate volts reach -27v .......heading from its -30v on its journey towards zero......and will continue in that conducting mode through zero and +ve direction....Again, that tiny resistor will have a large volt drop with extreme shoot through current....and that will shift the V in an unstable manner at the Source, producing a dynamic 3v gate Vth (Hence the gate v there in the top left circuit not swinging beyond -27v towards -30v as needed for that Nmos bar to close off....in fact, the -30v at Source there is shifted into a + value so the gate v is only seen as 0 to an accumulation of approx +40v...all because of that tiny Source resistor with a high current). That problem does not occur in the bottom right circuit where there is no Source resistor. Note2.... The 6.8kΩ and the 680Ω resistors are set here so that the gate swing across both Mosfets is suitable, and not greater than the usual datasheet +/- 20v recommendation. Take care with the cap choice, since a bad selection can change the final shootthrough drastically! Altering these resistors gives you personal scope to alter the Mosfet bar timings to your choice here on EC eg as per your datasheet Vth, rather than blowing a Mosfet by trying to do so on a board. Click on the green amp meter to see the μA bottom right circuit shoot through value compared with the extreme kA shoot through of the top left circuit. Rds is not discussed in this article....it is a different issue. The above article is my viewpoint and discussion is welcome.
published 8 years ago
selman
8 years ago
It produces a pretty dramatic show actually, Blue sparks flying across the room
2ctiby
8 years ago
Nice display...who needs fireworks when we have that top left circuit? Did you try the circuit on the right to compare?
hurz
8 years ago
You still do not understand static behaviour of mosfets applied under DC conditions, but you start explaining dynamic ones. Ohhh boy. You really are a pain in the ass. Didn't we talked last time about what Ugs means? Why do you apply 30-60V gate source voltage to your pure mosfets and getting 800000Amper? Go ten steps back and try to understand mosfets basics.
2ctiby
8 years ago
You obviously were incapable of following my article, that explains why you have continued to blow Mosfets...last year you even stated that you have never heard of shoot through lol
hurz
8 years ago
Again, here we do not have shoot through. Here we have a contiunes conducting bullshit circuit. The lower "nuclear mosfet model" you messed up gets always at least Vgs 30V or even more. I know you do not see that, cause you are blind. Start with the basics, around Ohms Law.
hurz
8 years ago
What??? Stop explaining bullshit. Gate voltage to source is always higher than 3V!!!!! So its always contacting. You are a p.....
2ctiby
8 years ago
I said that the left circuit was inadequate. The circuit on the right, as stated, works fine with a tiny acceptable shoot through. If you have a technical point which you can not follow, or wish to dispute in that circuit on the right, then carefully describe your specific points for discussion about it ....  e.g. describe the layout or a component value...I do not intend to reply to insults.  
hurz
8 years ago
The left circuit is inadequate to everything. It does show only bullshit
2ctiby
8 years ago
Yes...that's what I was saying throughout..... Now let's hope you have also learned that the circuit on the right is the way to do it if you don't want to continue with your shoot through circuits. (And we can use pulses for the input if we prefer).
hurz
8 years ago
You start to explain shoot through were NO shoot through is visible. Only "how to kill" a mosfet with static constant overcurrent... stay at circuits you do understand. And dont go into dynamic behaviour as long you do not understand BASIC static things like Vgs. Have fun with Ohms Law.
hurz
8 years ago
And the circuit on the left dont fulfils anything. Keep up messing up!
2ctiby
8 years ago
Shootthrough is where both mosfets are conducting current at the same time during crossover, with no resistor to restrict the flow. .... Regarding  Vgs: In both N and P Mosfets (enhancement), the gate is referenced to the Source, and in both cases the gates are the same polarity as their drain. ie For the N type to be on, the gate is more positive than the Source. For the P type to be on, the gate is more negative than the Source. For switching, the Source needs to stay fixed otherwise it will adversely modulate the gate. The circuit on the right fulfils those criteria, and switching occurs at the fixed Mosfet VTO. .... Any proposed static could be considered as part of the shoot through if it occurs at crossover intervals...as seen to be so on the oscilloscope....The bad circuit on the left clearly shows shoot through, (even though in this case it is due to partial closure where the necessary gate voltage requirement is unfulfiled and so prevents a complete crossover) and it shows the adverse gate voltage modulation when a resistor is placed at the Nmos Source.(which was described as a side issue since I had to put a resistor there to prevent EC locking out as mentioned).
hurz
8 years ago
Bla bla bla bla ... 3.66 to 60V Gate source is just LOL
hurz
8 years ago
The lower Nmos is always ON. Cuz Vgs is greater then 3V! There is no crossover problem there is a short-circuit-of-a-nuclear-power-plant problem! First you have to understand how transistors work under static conditions before you try to explain us the dynamic behaviour of this world. Start at Ohms law. http://everycircuit.com/circuit/6390345886859264
2ctiby
8 years ago
You are using the word "shootthrough" for the through current with the two Mosfet crossover having occurred, whereas I am using it to demonstrate the through current whether one Mosfet does or does not manage to make the crossover complete. We are in agreement that the bad left circuit Nmos does not manage to drop its Vgs below 3v for it to close off. Let's concentrate on how the circuit on the right greatly reduces that through current as well as it completing the crossover properly.
hurz
8 years ago
Im using what? You failed to demonstrate the problem, but you present already a solution?Please concentrante on the root problem and go into yourself. Start with a basic circuit which presents what you like to fix. Be only a little more scientific.
hurz
8 years ago
Start e.g. with this http://everycircuit.com/circuit/5268918920019968
2ctiby
8 years ago
You are avoiding the article's contrast between the left and right circuit, and refusing to talk about the good circuit on the right. That is because you can not follow it. There is no point in discussing this further unless you can specify a feature in the circuit on the right.
hurz
8 years ago
Right, I cant follow. Nobody can... cuz there is no starting point. Keep up messing!
hurz
8 years ago
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