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mtobot
modified 9 years ago

Weird voltage setup with philosophical rambling

2
8
140
03:09:28
Just exploring the idea of positive versus negative voltage. When the switch is set to the diode path, negative voltage can't develop on either side of the voltage source. The software is forced to represent the AC power as a series of intermittent positive voltages alternating between one side of the source and the other. But as the current through the resistor shows, this alternative method of representation makes no difference to what's actually happening in the circuit. They are just two different ways of understanding the same underlying phenomenon. So is either more "true" than the other? How exactly do we distinguish between the phenomenon and our understanding of that phenomenon? I'm a firm believer in Truth and objectivity, but sometimes thinking about questions like these makes my head hurt.
published 9 years ago
TekTUGRAM
9 years ago
aferin iyi olmuş
TekTUGRAM
9 years ago
lan bi sg
WTFCircuit
9 years ago
It's called relative ground, basically you can place the ground reference in a circuit the latter will always work in the same way, as long as you don't change it. So there is no true circuit, just the circuit as it is, the ground in just a reference for us were we assume the potencial is 0V (In ec this is not true for logic gates because they have an internal reference, but that's another story). Objectively speaking you're making you have a headache for nothing more than a convention. Take this example: http://everycircuit.com/circuit/5246663648346112
rich11292000
9 years ago
I disagree. The ground should be placed as it is in real life. Nobody agrees because they don't know the actual issue of getting a professional product that shuts down the mains due to a 5mA ground fault. How professional is that? Placing this reference symbol with no rules or regard to what its function is has caused extreme confusion. Not to mention the extreme safety issues its caused. Terminal voltage is not to be misrepresented or up to interpretation.
rich11292000
9 years ago
It is believed only a idiot makes these assumptions and not a educated engineer. However my friend picked up a unplugged microwave recently, he went down in less than 3 seconds. We performed CPR for 3 minutes when EMT took over. He received two defibrillator charges 5 minutes after his shock. They signalled the police that he wasn't dead and then police left us alone. The hospital put him on a medical coma and a hypothermia treatment for 48 hours. His has burn marks: one below each knee, one below each elbow, one on the top of his head. He only touched the microwave with his hands! I took the microwave apart. The schematic has everything on the secondary of its transformer using the chassis as a common conductor, including a high voltage diode that discharges to the metal chassis. However everybody wants to hold onto the rule from led class because they didn't need clarification about a battery powered circuit that doesn't need reference, rather than the mains that have already been referenced a dozen times. They also have no clue about Benjamin's creation of lightning protection called grounding of buildings and that the mains tie together with this ground.
WTFCircuit
9 years ago
Notice as I wasn't referring to real life, only simulation, where the ground is just a convencion and to prove that I used a very simple circuit, not a complex machine as a microwave oven with dangerous part in it as high voltage transformers. Infact is you read what I said you won't found any real life reference. In real life it is obvious that it is important, expecially at main voltages, but at that level things become more complex, such as ground loop problems and this sort of things
mtobot
9 years ago
I've been trying to educate myself about electronics for a few years now, and despite having learned a lot, I have to confess, I still don't fully understand the concept of ground. For example, why does residential wiring have a "neutral" line as well as a ground? I know the rules regarding how they are supposed to be connected to outlets, switches, etc., but I have no idea what the actual, real difference is between them. Same goes for car batteries. I know that when you use booster cables it's the red, positive terminal that matters. You can clamp the black to the vehicle chassis or any bare metal and everything will still work fine. But then why does the battery even have the black terminal? Is it really necessary? I feel like an idiot for not knowing, but the answers to these basic questions have evaded me for some reason. How is it possible that I've been able to grasp weird abstract stuff like reactive power and tuned oscillating LC circuits, but I still don't understand what the heck ground really is?!?!
justinmh
9 years ago
Ground just means common, and in the app you have to have a ground for it to work. Even if it is just a dc power supply with a resistor on it. Clearly the ground in this case is just the negative wire, but the app needs the ground to work. If you hook a resistor to a battery, you don't need a ground like you do in the app. In residential the neutral line is the ground, as it is your return or common line. However it isn't called that, it is called neutral. The ground wire, ie the third prong isn't actually required for use. It is an added safety feature in case the equipment malfunctions and shorts out to the case, then all the current is sent straight to ground (in this case a grounding rod next to your house), rather than through you. Electricity is lazy and will take the path of least resistance, and in this case it is a copper wired straight to ground. As for a car, if you are trying to jump a car and you want the battery to charge you connect the black wire to chassis to allow it to charge for a minute. This way it wires it so it is a load on the other battery and actually charges it. Instead of connecting the negative terminals together, and effectively putting them in parallel, the dead battery doesn't really charge this way. So that's how that works. You still need the negative terminal on a battery because that is what everything connects to. The only thing that doesn't connect directly back to the battery via the negative terminal of the battery is your spark plug wires, and that is because they use the threads that are in contact with the engine head to connect to chassis ground. Hope this answers your question, ground just means common, or return, or negative... and in cases of residential, you don't need the third prong to work, it's just a safety feature, that's why it's only on things that draw a lot of current.

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