EveryCircuit - cdi tester. Need suggestions

hurz

6 years ago

as long you have no idea what mains is all about in theorie you better dont touch it. 240VAC are 340Vpeak !!!!

figgie

6 years ago

Isnt 240vac peak 240?

alexpu

6 years ago

240 sms, peak is 240 x sqrt 2

alexpu

6 years ago

Rms*

alexpu

6 years ago

What purpose does the 100 uf cap provide on the inverting pin of op amp?

alexpu

6 years ago

Op amp gain is set by the feedback resistor. For positive fb it's rf/r1 =av

figgie

6 years ago

The 100uf cap adjusts the phase . Makes it rise inbetween valley. The zenner decreases the duration of trigger.

figgie

6 years ago

Thanks alex ill have a look at it 😁. Im just getting confused with the settings of op amp you can adjust vgain/v. Is that to save space?

figgie

6 years ago

Cause im not to sure which ic i should be looking for in schematic got it set to 7v/v

alexpu

6 years ago

Oh good call with the cap! That's smart

alexpu

6 years ago

I honestly have no idea about the settings in the SIM, maybe one of the more experienced members does, sorry!

figgie

6 years ago

👍 thanks. All good.

figgie

6 years ago

Damn didnt know i had to have seperate power supply for op amp. Any one have an idea?

hurz

6 years ago

as long you do not know what mains is all about you should not publish such dangerous circuits.

figgie

6 years ago

Hurz how about make useful suggestions.

figgie

6 years ago

Im not 100% sure what im doing but im asking for peoples advice on what to do if you dont want to piss off damn. Could suggest something to make it safer

hurz

6 years ago

How about you concentrate what you want. So far i can see only mess. To many circuits and to less concret what you have and want.

hurz

6 years ago

You have today two circuits. one with 555 and this one with mains voltages. A few days ago it were three circuits to this topic. CDI. What the fuck is now your problem. You have 20 problems with three circuits or can we bring it down to one problem in one circuit we can start with?

figgie

6 years ago

Im and trying to make a cdi tester that has 350vac @ 1A to mimic the gen coil. Mimic the trigger coil to place between the the valleys of the ac gen coil

hurz

6 years ago

ok, and how can we help? I gave you already a tipp. This tipp is still valid, as long you do not know what mains power is all about you should better keep your fingers away. 240V AC are 340V peak, its still wrong in your circuit, so how can we help you if you do not understand?

kiani

6 years ago

DC,,,,,,,,,//\\,,,,,AC.....Peak to peak,,,,,,,peak,,,,,,,RMS(root mean square),,,,,,,,,,,,average,,,,,,,,,,, peak rectified, ,,,,,,,,,,,,, full rectified, ,,,,,,

kiani

6 years ago

What are they!? What does it mean!? What is their rekstion to esch other!? How can we measure them!,,, what's for lunch by the way!?

figgie

6 years ago

Thanks kiani. I dont know how you can help other than show me. Or say read this. Also Yes i understand adding another zenner might help but i have 555 circuit working but its triggering same time as charging.. hence the op amp for phase shift

kiani

6 years ago

I am a professional noob. It has always helped me to get the principle right, once i know the principle of the works,, then i find lots of ways of doing the same thing.

figgie

6 years ago

I understand the basics and know a little. I can build and read schematics but when it comes to completely understanding components i struggle. Like to me the mains is 240vac with potential 10amp draw at 60 hz. Swings from +240 down to -240. What am i not understanding. Still gottq look up RMS

kiani

6 years ago

I think i know what you are saying. Talking to you from own experience.. There are no short cuts.. Short cuts come with experience... (your own experience).. The clear root (in my opinion of course) is to take each part separately. Separate bloks.. Ie. 1st. Get to know about ac. Dc.. Peak. P_p., RMS.. ( i know it might be a little boring and seem irrelevent,) to your project,, but it is essential.. Cause it is the basic that is going ti follow you everywhere you go (in your project). Like musical notes, very basic but essential before composing.. Just take time out and get to details of each block. Then you find you you how trivial the bigger problems become.. For example, i don't even know what cdi is about.. But i know for phse shift i can achieve with a resistor and a capacitor.. Cause i "ve learnt (still at it) about capacitors.. But one thing at the time,. Mains is the most important,, life threatening,. It is not difficult if you do it one block at the time,, people can help you more as well.

figgie

6 years ago

Thanks ill have a look tomorrow

figgie

6 years ago

Ok i think i understand the 240vac mains is the rms but the peak of ac is 340v with ptp 680v.

hurz

6 years ago

right

figgie

6 years ago

Ok so when i make a circuit i need to divide rms required voltage by .707 get correct output say i needed 12vac it would have to be 17vac peak

kiani

6 years ago

12 v rms. Represents a sinusoidal voltage of 17 volts peak, or 34 v pesk to peak. As you've calculated.. you need to watch out you stick with one, either rms...or peak, or peak to peak. All the way through the circuit, . Otherwise. 12v rms,,,17v peak,, 34 peak to peak, are the representing the same voltage.. For example. We have a voltage of 34 v p_p,....(17v peak), (12v rms)..all the same thing.......now in practice. Ssy we have a resistor 10 ohms, then V=I*R. Now.. Three possible solutions....a)..12 =I*10 >> I=1.2. Ampers, Rms.......b) 17=I*10. >>> I=1.7 Ampers peak. C) 34=I*10. >> I=3.4 Ampers p_p all say the same thing. Deal with one unit through out..

kiani

6 years ago

As for domestic mains voltage, it is just said 240 v or 120 v, the rms has been omitted,,. It shoud say 240 v rms.. So we know what they are talking about. Everyone ssys 240 v. But when measued eith oscilloscope which let us see the shape, we see a sinusoidal wave voltage of 340 v peak or 680 v (+,- 340 v) peak to peak.

kiani

6 years ago

The voltsge source on EC requires peak voltage.. So its no good putting 240 v for peak value. Cause 240 v is not the real peak value... Clear as mud! Lol.

figgie

6 years ago

Haha na i get you. Making much more sence. Now i gotta figure out the real circuit and the required capacitors cause ive had to step down then up makes its hard getting values is there a trick to it like ohms law?. Also with caps ive got a 47u 450v that should able to handle peak 450v or is it ptp the dif caps confuse me so

hurz

6 years ago

still the problem, you are new to this and 240VAC is not funny, its dangerous.

figgie

6 years ago

Like i get the polar and bi polar side of it. Like some steady the flow others stop flowing once charged 😆😆😆

figgie

6 years ago

I would of liked to use the mains to power gen charge and transform the 12v

kiani

6 years ago

Electrolytic capacitors will explode if connected to ac. Voltage levels you are talking about... Isn't it best to stay away from this and save your goolies.lol. You are in danger in a territory you are unfamiliar,.

figgie

6 years ago

Not if i rectify it yes?

figgie

6 years ago

Lol and i never stand near a circuit unless low voltage. Stand back and plug in for a second then disconnect 😂😂😂

kiani

6 years ago

With capacitors, when using them as smoothing rectified mains,, you've got to concern thinhs like ESR and ripple current, and have the right cap. Used. otherwise it will act as a long fuse and explode later when in use.... @hurz is an expert, suggest take his advice. be more specific in ehat you want and what you need yo know,, no one csn see from here what you are doing.. You have a 100 uf in that opamp circuit. And then uou want sharp trigger.!!? I don't,, you'll have better chance to desl with esch part separately and individualy,, take car,,..good luck stay alive.

figgie

6 years ago

Yeah. Well could start with probably most important going from mains to mimic gen coil which i measured on multimeter to be around 350vac @ 1a. How can i mimic that safely? I gotta read my notes cause something in the cdi schematic info said to prevent noise from causing fake fire

figgie

6 years ago

Well measured it to be 315. But cdi schematic suggests 350 @ 1a

kiani

6 years ago

I don't know and wuite understand what it is all about,, so i don't want to mislead you, .. Just one thing Europeans have 220v ac. Mains. While uk has 240 v ac mains. And there is sn uoper and lower limit. Where are you, and where is the schematic from!?

kiani

6 years ago

And where and what is suppose to be the source of this voltage!?

figgie

6 years ago

Australia. 240vac rms mains 50hz

kiani

6 years ago

Wherr is this voltage comming from,, what's frequency. And what was your load current ehen you measured 315v.

kiani

6 years ago

Also there is bug on EC 555. If you are not aware. You have to use a 15 ohm resistor in series with the o/p pin to make 555 behave on simulation,, ( not necessary irl.) btw sorry for terrible writing, my phone screen is so scratched and cracked, it is a miracle it still works., that is minus my own impatiance.

figgie

6 years ago

Lol all good 🤙. Comming from mains @ 240vac rms @ 50hz with potential of 10A draw any higher trip breaker

figgie

6 years ago

Thanks didnt know that

figgie

6 years ago

Didnt get the amps measured. Just what schematic reckons

figgie

6 years ago

Had another crack seems to be working. Ill find out tomorrow http://everycircuit.com/circuit/5614096192634880

kiani

6 years ago

A smoothing capacitor be useful, . For 555 supply. Say 470 uf.

kiani

6 years ago

You hsve too much Henries on your transformers, 10 H far too much juice, unrealistic.. Reduce them to say....10mH on both transformers.. Then it will work.

figgie

6 years ago

Very nice thank you very much 😁😁

kiani

6 years ago

See you arround.