2ctiby

modified 9 years ago

E.C. bug ...parallel switches do not work without a small resistor in EC

197

02:38:30

EC bug?....either switch or both switches should light the lamp in reality...but on EC we need any hypothetical small resistor attached to one of the switches if the switches are to work in parallel.

Try closing both switches in the top circuit......it gives an unrealistic outcome....same problem is seen if an led is used with its appropriate resistor.

published 9 years ago

thebugger

9 years ago

No bug, just how EC works. It also can't work with Inductors in parallel or voltage sources, without some resistance. It's actually normal, in reality, you won't see a switch or a power source or an inductor, without some internal resistance. The purpose here in EC is Ohms law. What does I equal when V is finite and R - nonexistent? I=V/0? It doesn't make arithmetical sense does it ;). The idea is that you can't accidentally short a power supply with infinite potential, through infinitely small resistance.

2ctiby

9 years ago

Sorry to disagree, but if you put two switches in parallel as any electrician or electronic circuit builder does, then the circuits work just fine as expected. This action in EC is not representitive of real situations....There is no shorting of the circuit here which you mention.

Addramyrz

9 years ago

But every switch will have a bit of resistance.

rich11292000

9 years ago

In real life switches have resistance. The simulator uses HARD MATH. Zero divided by zero is a invalid math operation. We can trust the math here.

2ctiby

9 years ago

The locking out action of this simple parallel switch arrangement is probably due to mathematics in the program concerning infinity/zero/significant figures...I suggest that the programmers adjust for that so that such a simple circuit will act as it would in reality rather than locking out.

ETJAKEOC

9 years ago

Or you can add a 1uOhm resistors to each switch to simulate the resistance of the wire between the wires which will solve your issue

rich11292000

9 years ago

We are the programmers here, not the developer. But yet our programming freedom has been taken away when it comes to logic gate propagation delay. The raw gate was bullet proof, now its nearly useless. This implementation has redefined the most important aspect, and now we are left with: "Almost Every Circuit".

thebugger

9 years ago

The programmers cannot find a solution for a finite number divided by zero, sorry :D. You may have not shorted the switches to ground, but it's possible, and that's why EC won't allow it. The only passive component with internal resistance here in EC is the transformer.

2ctiby

9 years ago

The program developers could account for the zero in the parallel reciprocal calculation by using an 'if this then that' condition so that in these parallel addition situations, such an addition does not continue, but instead supplies a tiny hypothetical resistance in the background to prevent the problem...that extra final calculated resistance could then be dealt with or removed by further programming etc if it is significantly large.

thebugger

9 years ago

Yes, and that's what they did with transformers and relay contacts, but coils and switches, it seems, they've left for us to show some prudence

2ctiby

9 years ago

Yes, that is perhaps the case.....not a problem getting round this parallel switch fault etc for most of us...but I do find it a slightly aggravating non-necessity and new-comers to EC may well be thrown by it.

rich11292000

9 years ago

"I believe" the logic applied is related to the physics engine and not to circuitry. The concept can exceed the scope of electron rules. The science can be applied to a different median.

rich11292000

9 years ago

We want a ideal environment to create unlimited situations. Even religion/god is subjected to the laws of probability. Two ideal switches in parallel is a improbable situation. But who cares.

lenzrulz

9 years ago

Hey Rich, the law of probability expresses the total probability of an outcome which can be realized via several distinct events, God's metaphysical nature precludes him from such distinct events. However I agree that supplying a tiny hypothetical resistance in the background would alleviate the problem.

Robert_Kidd

8 years ago

Hey 2ctiby where you gone?

Robert_Kidd

8 years ago

You having a long holiday?

2ctiby

8 years ago

Hi Robert...just been doing other things for a while...nice to see you and the guys still helping the community....hope to be back in soon with some useful input if I can.

Robert_Kidd

8 years ago

No sweat! Just wanted to be sure you hadn't given up :-)

LJ1234

6 years ago

I agree with 2ctiby, it's a bug or a "feature". It's probably meant to handle limitless power through recursion or some such. Probably best for the devs to put in a non-zero but negligible number and round off the digits. If resistance is necessary that you would put it in.

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