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thebugger
modified 10 years ago

Preamp for Aech

3
35
126
01:51:26
Okay here is my version of a preamp. The voltage gain is 1010. So let's go through the differences between this circuit and yours. First notice the way the bias chains are connected. Instead of connecting the 22kOhm and 41kOhm resistors to the + of the power supply, you connect them to to the collector of the transistors. This provides negative feedback by voltage and stabilises the output thermally. (you may refer to Thermal Drift in Semiconductors). See whenever the thermal drift pulls the collector voltage down, the base voltage also goes down struggling to rise the collector voltage again, thus stabilising the output. The 330ohm resistor provides negative feedback by current. It limits the current through the transistor. By adding an emitter resistor, you decrease the gain. The formula is the collector resistor divided by the emitter resistor. So ideally the first stage should provide 5600/330=17 times gain. By adding an emitter capacitor too, you decrease the negative feedback and ideally you may completely supress. I chose not to completely supress it by adding a 10ohm resistor to dampen the capacitor effect. On the second stage i added a similar emitter negative feedback you may see in some circuits with an LED. I won't go into detail here, you should only know that it also supresses the negative feedback and provides full gain, much like an emitter parallel RC circuit does. Now for the last negative feedback. So far we have a current and voltage negative feedbacks scattered around, now the last feedback is only by AC and provides a complete feedback (from output to input), whereas all other feedbacks are local. That's the 10uF/100k RC circuit. When you take a feedback from the second collector to the first emitter it increases the negative feedback and decreases the gain, but increases the linearity. If you have any specific troubles following up, just tell me what can i try to clear up. Always a joy to help others dabble in the world of electronics.
published 10 years ago
hurz
10 years ago
Build it ; test it ; post visual results!
thebugger
10 years ago
Why?
thebugger
10 years ago
I trust EC. The bias chains will probably be different.
hurz
10 years ago
Have you ever tried to amplify 1mV to 1V ? I guess you dont!
thebugger
10 years ago
No, i haven't, there is gona be some stray noise. But the guy said he wanted a gain of a 1000. I couldn't possibly amplify 1V a thousand times. Plus what's with 1mV. That's within the specs of a normal microphone.
hurz
10 years ago
You haven't but you give recommendations howto! Thats what some of us feel is ridiculous.
thebugger
10 years ago
Actually come to think of it, yes i have amplified such a signal. That is a normal microphone input. The max input from a mic is around 4mV, so yes i know for a fact that this is the way to amplify it. What's your problem?
thebugger
10 years ago
The only difference is that the input impedance is rather low, but that can easily be fixed
hurz
10 years ago
So build it ; test it ; document it - but stop dream of things
thebugger
10 years ago
Why should I? People have been building, testing and documenting these type of circuits for a hundred years. Why should I do it all over again, when I can just use the principles they've already encovered and build it.
hurz
10 years ago
You recommend things other people did for you. Thats buggzy's world
hurz
10 years ago
Im sure, you tried to build this circuit yesterday and completely failed!
thebugger
10 years ago
Well, no hahahah. You underestimate me ;) and yes of course we'd be using something someone else invented. I don't suppose you created something new, did you? I want you to tell me one reason why this will fail. And it must me something i cannot refute. Come on i dare you. You're just pesky and always have to pick a fight with someone.
thebugger
10 years ago
And one more thing. You know I'm probably the only one besides Secuture in this app who is anywhere near your level, and that's why you always choose to pick your fights with me. I get it, you're looking for a worthy opponent. That's what I'd do, too
hurz
10 years ago
No, you are on my radar cuz of your fraudstyle recommendation
hurz
10 years ago
Slow down. Build more ; test mire and publish results to discuss
thebugger
10 years ago
As I said, these thing have already been built, tested, and documented. No need for further doings so, I'm not rediscovering it! As I said, tell me one thing about it that's wrong. Something i can't disprove
hurz
10 years ago
Link to reference!
thebugger
10 years ago
No, no reference. This is my circuit. Come on, i dare you, tell me what's wrong?
hurz
10 years ago
Its your circuit (not hard to see from design) you have never seen it elsewhere, but you thing its done 100 times this way before. And you know its not working, but the description reads like one of lenny's bullshit circuits.
thebugger
10 years ago
And you still haven't told me what's wrong with it. Hahah as i expected. Just same old grumpy hurzy :D
hurz
10 years ago
You already found out its not working over the weekend, thats not new
hurz
10 years ago
To just tell you whats wrong is the wrong way. The wrong way for a good teacher. No reference ; no tests ; no documentation; but bullshit descriptions
hurz
10 years ago
You have seen over the WE its a noise generator and not as you expected a amplifier.
thebugger
10 years ago
Haha as expected. Tsk, Tsk, Hurzy, hurzy
thebugger
10 years ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_emitter here's your reference and you're very subtlely avoiding the question. What's wrong with it?
thebugger
10 years ago
I've taken everything into account. Temperature drift comprnsation, voltage NFC, current NFC, NFC by AC, impedance matching, proper decoupling. What the hell is your problem?
hurz
10 years ago
Already the split of gain you have chosen does prove you have no idea about handling noise! This wiki is a nice reference for you, but wont help a lot for this project. This circuit is in your imagination only working. As almost all of your circuits. Only some of them you tested. Your collection if dreams is only getting bigger but its waste of time
hurz
10 years ago
https://www.google.de/search?q=sqrt(4*k*295+Kelvin*100+kiloOhm*(500+kHz))+in+microvolt
thebugger
10 years ago
Look i know the gain is very high. I haven't chosen it myself. The guy I'm designing the circuit for, said he needs a gain of 1000. Personally I don't go above single digit gain per stage, as a personal preference. Ok, i get the thermal noise, but it's everywhere. You can't even begin to exclude this noise from circuits. It's not just resistors, it's everything. I've had a rather nasty encounter with such noise in my vacuum tube circuits, where the grid resistor is often of a very high value, which tends to introduce noise, a sort of hissing. But I've also taken measures to minimise such noise. All bias chains are of low resistance, the bandwidth is considerably shortened and I've swapped any passive resistors i could. So for a gain of 1000 this is a pretty good example. I repeat, though, I wouldn't choose such a high gain for a single stage amplifier. I'd usually go with a lot less :D
hurz
10 years ago
I talked about the Split of gain which was your desicion and bad. Thermal noise is always present, good boy.... Put your apps away and try to understand the formula. Lower R gives less voltages! All desicions you had in your hand were wrong. But still stubborn and keep the fraud description this fits to you!
thebugger
10 years ago
Lower R gives less noise. Where do you see high resistance, except the one in the negative feedback?
hurz
10 years ago
Check this mic preamp and see the resistance compared to the ones you have taken http://everycircuit.com/circuit/5816748320227328
thebugger
10 years ago
Yes, I've seen similar topologies. I admit it's better if I distribute the gain evenly through the stages, but all the same.
hurz
10 years ago
So let you alone with your dream circuit

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