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thebugger
modified 9 years ago

Relay Hysteresis

6
15
202
02:28:31
As with all ferromagnetic materials, in a relay a hysteresis is also present. It appears because when the coil is initially charged the magnetic field builds up, and cannot collapse instantly when prompted. Even if that effect is diode dampened it is still present in a certain degree. At higher frequencies the coil sees the current through it as DC, because the coil doesn't have enough time for its field to collapse, so it stays always energised (just like charging a capacitor, but exactly the opposite) while you cannot charge a capacitor instantly, you cannot discharge a coil instantly. Remember coils and capacitors are complete antipodes in their way of operation. In coils the current lags behind the voltage, and in capacitors the voltage lags behind the current. Anyway, this is of less importance, but at higher frequencies the coil makes the relay's contact plates latch onto a single position and renders it static, because the static magnetic field created by the coil doesn't change, or collapse. This is one of the reasons why relays are only suitable for low frequencies. Even the fastest relays, can't switch faster than 200-300Hz, and even then their reliability is questionable at best. Moreover at higher frequencies, you risk the contacts welding shut, rendering the relay inoperable
published 9 years ago
hurz
9 years ago
Sorry buggzy you guess again. The coil does not cause a hysteresis. Its the metal core which cause a magnetic hysteresis. What you describe is a phase shift effect and needs some AC changing current. But magnetic hysteresis is even there for an infinite slow changing "DC" voltage would be applied. Thats the trick you store information on magnetic material - tapes, disks, cards... Check this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_hysteresis
hurz
9 years ago
BTW as math explanation Xl=2*pi*f*L when f is zero then Xl is also zero. Zero Xl mean only R is active! But still a hysteresis!!
hurz
9 years ago
And magnetic hysteresis is not part of EC relay models!
selman
9 years ago
Isn't that a delay exhibited by relays... when the source is completely cut off the developed magnetic field does not collapse instantly but it does so slowly by discharging through the diode, considering the diode's resistance is zero and in your circuit the coil resistance and inductance are 100Ohm and 100mH, do the math and you'll find out the lag...
thebugger
9 years ago
Yes at the beginning of the first sentence i said it's caused by the core. All ferromagnetic materials exhibit hysteresis. I even think they tried building in the past even before tubes, a magnetic memory computer.
hurz
9 years ago
This is exactly what we expected. Buggzy buggzy.... And this long lasting fantasy story about "how and why this hysteresis" afterwards is completely unrelated. Buggzy, have a banana, this is ridiculous. Not one word about the core hysteresis....
thebugger
9 years ago
What, man i can hardly understand what you're saying. The core has hysteresis, because a magnetizing imprint remains on it from previous magnetization. To reverse that remnant, more energy is needed than to create it in the first place, so the energy needed to reverse the polarization isn't the same as the energy that polarized it in the first place. That curve is the core hysteresis.
hurz
9 years ago
And why dont you write that in your description? Because its new information you now looked up. So far its a nonsense description as usual from stubborn buggzy.
thebugger
9 years ago
Haha, no not new information. I've known this since high school. And you're really starting to piss me off. I don't have to prove my skills to anyone, especially you :)
hurz
9 years ago
Which skills?
thebugger
9 years ago
The fact that you refuse to recognize them, makes me want to stop all further discussion with you. And in fact, I'll do so.
selman
9 years ago
Come on hurz... Don't ruin your reputation as a jem stone of EC. So many EC fellows have a lot to learn from you, don't just go and post offensive comment on peoples ideas, support the ideas be positive and if you have something to add just use the word "BUT", and it'll be nice if you post an apology circuit for all the peoples you might have offended in some way..... 😇😇😇😇
thebugger
9 years ago
If he'd postes one circuit for every person, he'd run out of ideas, or he'll crash EC's server.
hurz
9 years ago
BUT is not working for stubborn buggzy, unfortunately!
hurz
9 years ago
Now we have again a stupid/wrong description for an actually interesting effect itself. But stubborn buggzy is not willing to change that. In its fantasy the description fits to the ferrormagetic hysteresis. Well as usual we better stop here.

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