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2ctiby
modified 6 years ago

Nmos datasheet setup IRF7201n International Rectifier website ... part 1

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01:39:38
Four variations of a basic Nmos setup. (many more variations are possible once you know how). All four mosfets have identical settings (which you can check for yourself). Just one mosfet therefore could operate any of these setups. The Nmos (ie all four) is set up as per International Rectifier datasheet IRF 7201n Look at the voltage across the drain to source terminals ds volts ie Vds (the s terminal is at earth zero). Look at the current passing through the drain to source ie Id or Ids amps V = IR ie R = V/I letter I ( not the number 'one' ). R is the Resistance between the d and s terminals ie: Rds So... Rds = Vds/I Rds = 0.219 / 7.3 Rds = 0.03 Ohm for all four circuits (check it out) The bottom right circuit shows Vds = 0.0015 volts with the shown current of Id = 0.05 amps Rds = 0.0015/0.05 = 0.03 Ohm just the same as the other three circuits here, with the same mosfet. We are only interested in the above whilst the Nmos is switched ON ie: when the gate volts ( ie Vgs), is above the threshold volts of the settings (ie: VTO) We therefore place a reminder there with that Rds and write it as Rds(on) rather than just Rds If we now alter the Vgs of our circuit from its present shown value of 10v down to say 8v, we can then see how the Id and the Vds and the Rds(on) alter. Note therefore that altering Vgs will alter the Rds(on) as you can see in any of these circuits. Likewise, if we alter the VTO threshold setting, then Rds(on) will change to a different value. (Vgs - VTO) is called Vov or the 'overdrive' ... more about that later, but for now remember: Altering Vov will alter the Rds(on) ... check it yourself as above here. Note that the kiani library for that Nmos (7 along from top left there) uses an incorrect value for VTO of 1.5v there (not as per datasheet seen 1v) ... That means the settings have been fiddled (ie not now matching the datasheet Beta value) in order to obtain the Rds(on) value of 0.03 Ohm. Thus an invalid EC model for the datasheet. The correct values for the datasheet mosfet are: Vgs = 10v VTO = 1v Rds(on) = 0.03 Ohm at current 7.3 amp with these Vgs and VTO values.... note Vov = 9 being (10-1) Once those values have been used in an EC setup, then the settings obtained create the correct Beta. The Beta, Vov and Rds(on) can then be used mathematically to suit the requirements of our EC setup... eg if we wish to use a different Vgs in our circuit, ... the beta settings will remain unchanged as per the datasheet. Note however, that the Rds(on) will change, but that altered value is then understood and can be accounted for in our circuit. See now part 2 here ... http://everycircuit.com/circuit/4865219233579008
published 6 years ago
lenzrulz
6 years ago
👎
lenzrulz
6 years ago
This ends when you stop posting your comments on my circuits!
2ctiby
6 years ago
@hurz .. Users need to setup their own bought mosfets on a board and observe/calculate necessary parameters ... That is different to modelling the datasheet test mosfet which has a fixed VTO of 1v as shown on the datasheet for the stated IRF7201n ... When modelling that mosfet we must stick to the shown values, ie: 1v VTO ... If we instead choose any non-datasheet VTO then the resulting Rds(on) and Beta could be anything of our fancy, but not the datasheet test model. Kiani chose a non-datasheet stipulated VTO, and it was therefore a meaningless attempt at a datasheet shown test model.
2ctiby
6 years ago
@hurz ... The "max"  means that if they quote say 5, then your mosfet Rds(on) will not be more than 5 for similar test conditions. No specific VTO is usually quoted in the datasheet shown range.... and a lower VTO gives a lower Rds(on) for the datasheet presentation at fixed Vgs.
kiani
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
hurz
6 years ago
correction Lenny: my technical advice on your charlatan drawings
hurz
6 years ago
@2cent, you dont read you dont understand you turn in circles
2ctiby
6 years ago
Can you calculate the kiani Id schematic current yet hurz?
lenzrulz
6 years ago
No he can’t because he’s too busy running around posting stupid comments on users circuits that he disagrees with or circuit descriptions that he doesn’t like.
2ctiby
6 years ago
Hurz is very knowledgeable in many aspects of electronics, but sadly he pretends to be super- knowledgeable in every area, and is prepared to lie, abuse and dominate in an effort to subdue all EC users in to submitting to his demand for power... which, like a pied piper is designed to lead people in to his permanent hell hole. He knows next to nothing about mosfets however, and is unable to debate constructively, because he can not follow valid technical discussion... Domination is paramount to hurz. He will be fine with users who subject themselves to him, but such users need to be cautious about compromising to such a devious path.
2ctiby
6 years ago
@hurz .. You now claim to be able to calculate the kiani schematic Id as per seen EC value ... but I think you are a liar and can not do that yet... I say that because of your shown inferior knowledge about mosfets in technical discussion which you fill with abuse and diversion without valid structure.
2ctiby
6 years ago
The kiani schematic Id that I am referring to: http://everycircuit.com/circuit/5031959353622528
kiani
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
lenzrulz
6 years ago
I don’t trust your fiddled “MOSFET library”!
hurz
6 years ago
Lenny, @2ctiby does not provide any Library. You seena to miss that fact, he was just driveling about single wrong modeled mosfets
2ctiby
6 years ago
@hurz ... I have said repeatedly that I do not wish to make a library ... instead I prefer that users learn how to obtain info from a datasheet themselves and form their own EC setup with their understanding of Beta and Vov and Rds(on) etc. ... then they would not just plonk in details that they do not understand, taken from an idiot like kiani who has no idea (like you yourself don't). My presentation here can help users do that proper setup if they wish to follow it.
hurz
6 years ago
But a library is very useful and safes time if its fine. You have said kianis library is pointless, so far your model and a resulting library would be absolut pointless and wont safe any time. Also single samples from your method are just wrong
2ctiby
6 years ago
@hurz ... you just can not understand any of this ... and that is why you can not find the current in the kiani schematic ... which you are now happy to lie about by saying that you can ... but you know that you can't, and you won't be proving me wrong by presenting the details any time soon ... right? Here is the link to that schematic: http://everycircuit.com/circuit/5031959353622528
kiani
6 years ago
2ctiby if you have any honour {left?! } in you, throw the towel in and say sorry and repentance to lord....
lenzrulz
6 years ago
I’m sorry that you fiddled with your “MOSFET library”. That confession makes me feel so much better, have a nice day my friend...😎
hurz
6 years ago
Im sorry that you are not able to make a library for good base Mosfets JFets and maybe IGBTs. Sorry.
2ctiby
6 years ago
@hurz ... The whole idea of a library for EC users shows that you do not understand mosfets ... Users need to be able to find the Beta of their own specific board mosfet and use that data to place in EC for simulation. My presentation here is solely to help users learn the concept of Beta in relation to Rds(on) and Vov. as a starting place for learning, by taking the datasheet info. ... Notice that I chose a mosfet with just one fixed VTO of 1v (which clueless kiani did not use) so that there was no choice there required. Ohmic, Saturation, lambda and double Id info is a further progression which you have no idea about ... eventually, the Id calcs come in to play eg for the kiani schematic which is beyond you at this time..
hurz
6 years ago
Im very sorry you are not able to read specifications and apply this knowledge into a simulation environment and one day into real. Nothing can open your eyes, life with your pointless Vto=1V model which will epic fail. Life with your big mouth to call well made Librarys for this community pointless! Life as troll and messy with wierd ideas about spec interpretations.
2ctiby
6 years ago
I used the sheet specific value of VTO for demonstration about how to obtain Beta. In reality, each mosfet will have its own VTO which needs to be found on a board along with its Beta. The datasheet test condition mosfet does not provide a copy/paste cure-all which represents each different individual mosfet VTO. Users need to find their own individual mosfet data, which can then be noted for future use and placed in to EC for experimenting in circuits, where Vgs may want to be altered by the user, and a different Rds(on) noted.
2ctiby
6 years ago
My "wierd ideas" that you mention are well known structures which produce a valid visible show of EC values ... structures that you have not come across yet.... just remember that you are presently incapable of detailing the Id in the kiani schematic.
hurz
6 years ago
go and talk to STM about your "wierd ideas" write an eMail to an application engineer and he will explain you Rdson-max! If you have a nice eMail reference as address.
2ctiby
6 years ago
@hurz ... Are you any closer to being able to work out the current in the kiani schematic? ... No I thought not, yet here you are giving stupid opinions and not even knowing how to use Beta and Vov properly... Is Rds(on) = 1/(Vov×Beta) too difficult for you, as described in my page two above?
hurz
6 years ago
Your red herring Beta and Vov is out and does not help you to hide any longer your incompetence.
2ctiby
6 years ago
Only technical questions welcome regarding this presentation from hereon ... no more side--tracking nonsense. Users can experiment by placing their own values in Vov (eg in Vgs or VTO) and see how the calculated result of the formula alters for Rds(on) as being 1/(Vov×Beta) ... The result can be checked by doing Vds/Id as shown there in EC to verify that the Rds(on) matches.... ie: Rds(on) alters with a change of Vov ..... Beta = KP(W/L) in the mosfet settings and will also prove consistent with that Rds(on) Ohmic formula result if any part is altered.... again verified as shown in EC as Rds(on) = Vds/Id as in V = IR ... note: lower Vds gives more accuracy.
hurz
6 years ago
As long you do not understand Rdson-max, your mosfet model sucks, and ANY red herring wont help here. You need help, read my comments and take Vto max. Vto min will EPIC FAILS. Calling working Libraries pointless, while walking with a red herring is silly, but typical for you. Stop this red herring show and concentrate on what was said one week ago. You bore me a lot
2ctiby
6 years ago
 Anyone modelling my presented mosfet here: (International Rectifier IRF7201n)  must stick to  VTO = 1 ... because that is the only mentioned value in the datasheet. (choosing any other value out of your own head is not then modelling the datasheet).
hurz
6 years ago
and it sucks
2ctiby
6 years ago
This presentation is the first step in learning how to handle Id properly in Mosfets. You will need to follow that and more if you wish to learn how to calculate current in the kiani schematic. Here is the link to that schematic which you are presently unable to calculate: http://everycircuit.com/circuit/5031959353622528
hurz
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
2ctiby
6 years ago
@hurz ... Are you any closer to being able to work out the current in the kiani schematic? ... No I thought not, yet here you are giving stupid opinions and not even knowing how to use Beta and Vov properly... Is Rds(on) = 1/(Vov×Beta) too difficult for you, as described in my page two above?
hurz
6 years ago
Are you any closer to prove your bullshit in a practical trail, e.g. Simulation seem to epic fail for you. Nobody can help you and the nbr. of stinky fishes doesn't make it better. Do the full process, what it is for, and let us know how it feels if a big mouth collapses. Dont be lazy and do the long way of gaining experience. Bad i know, its not creation of knowledge by itself, you have to move your ass
kiani
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
2ctiby
6 years ago
Mosfet saturation state needs correct usage of the drain output resistance. Kiani has no idea about Ohmic Rds(on) ... let alone the Saturation details which are not calculated at all in his recent presentations, which are therefore a total load of nonsense, with his maths flying off from one mistake to the next endlessly... He would be better off trying to calculate his earlier drain Id and see the EC shown values as validation ... kiani and hurz are unable to do that and so divert with the usual insults, diversions and abuse. The different slope of the datasheet graphs and a properly calculated lambda etc at each Vgs value has not been considered at all in the kiani latest mish-mash rubbish.
kiani
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
kiani
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
lenzrulz
6 years ago
Your fiddle circuit is full of errors my friend, your teacher gave you incorrect formulas, fix your fiddled circuit because it’s hazardous!
kiani
6 years ago
Lenzrulz sucking up to 2ctiby his patner charlatan and fraudster..
2ctiby
6 years ago
Here is the link to the kiani schematic, where kiani can not calculate his own drain current to match the shown EC 0.242 amp. Kiani, the deluded con man:    http://everycircuit.com/circuit/5031959353622528
lenzrulz
6 years ago
👍
lenzrulz
6 years ago
Bla, bla, bla dummy sucker, no wonder why no one takes you seriously...😎
lenzrulz
6 years ago
👍
kiani
6 years ago
Cityby you are talking hypocrete,, you keep changing what you talk about,,, we are not talking about, MILK, or CREAM,, or Inversion Layer, etc.... You just try to obfuscate the "VIEWERS",,,.... You use the lowest value of Vth in your crap model,,, cause you are not able to calculate Vth...which We have now SHOWN you how to do it........
2ctiby
6 years ago
Kiani knows nothing about mosfets, so I have no intention to talk to him about them... He can not discuss without abuse and his mosfet presentations are all full of utter nonsense ... He can not even calculate the current in his own presentations.
kiani
6 years ago
Beware of lenzrulz. And 2CTIBY He is the most notorious liar, spammer and hypocrite on EveryCircuit. He steals schematics and descriptions from others, re-publishing them without giving credits. lenzrulz projects himself as victim, while he's creating resentments by his very own actions, and has been doing so for years. Be wary when he presents himself as tech-savvy individual - his incompetence in the field of electronics is striking. But don't take my word for it, see for yourself. Should you engage into debate with him, keep a hardcopy or screenshots of what was said - he may manipulate his comments. He continuously reposts his crappy spam under the pretext of "cleansing of defamatory comments", but has been observed doing so with crap which didn't even contain a single comment at all. As self-declared master of debates (rather, master of hot air, moronic "Lol"s, and talking to himself through sock puppet proxies such as foul-mouthed Tedski, who spreads lies like his puppet master) he doesn't hesitate to fabricate fake "evidence" to support his lies. He is not interested in Electronics, but in provocation, and the reason for the toxic atmosphere on EC, even though he likes to blame others, naturally
2ctiby
6 years ago
Learn to calculate current, and then you can start talking about mosfets... any other from you is bullshit, usually with insults and abuse to hide your chaotic nonsense.
lenzrulz
6 years ago
More evidence that @kiani is incapable of thinking for himself as evidenced by his copied post written by a coward hiding behind illegal script usage!
zorgrian
6 years ago
2CB you have been warned nicely. Going on about current is not the main point here
zorgrian
6 years ago
A key advantage of a MOSFET is that it requires almost no input current to control the load current, when compared with bipolar junction transistors (BJTs).
zorgrian
6 years ago
2CB must learn to use the MOSFET
zorgrian
6 years ago
Show me an ohmic EC amplifier that uses an N channel MOSFET here. Tell me how any of the parameters provided by EC pertain to a real MOSFET
2ctiby
6 years ago
@zorgrian ...I will show you nothing with that attitude... go and learn somewhere else.
zorgrian
6 years ago
Ok so you have proven yourself to be a total cunt! I was trying to be reasonable you total fucked up shit sniffing gay boy.
zorgrian
6 years ago
I have nothing against gay people, but in your case I find it offensive. Your OCD Asperger's pompously antiquarian overlord attitude is repugnant, vile and detracts from community well being. Fuck you, your rubbish ideas and anyone who supports your arse sniffing pretentious delusional semi delinquent half baked effort
lenzrulz
6 years ago
@2ctiby doesn’t share your “social status” nor your appalling IQ charade, learn elementary reasoning skills coupled with a respectful attitude and try again, meanwhile reflect on your unsavoury behaviour and try to have a nice day...😎
2ctiby
6 years ago
Well said lenz
lenzrulz
6 years ago
👍
zorgrian
6 years ago
Self congratulations of uncouth mental slaves
zorgrian
6 years ago
@zorgrian ...I will show you nothing with that attitude... go and learn somewhere else.
zorgrian
6 years ago
@zorgrian ...I will show you nothing with that attitude... go and learn somewhere else.
zorgrian
6 years ago
@zorgrian ...I will show you nothing with that attitude... go and learn somewhere else.
zorgrian
6 years ago
WTF?
zorgrian
6 years ago
Schizophrenia
zorgrian
6 years ago
Schizophrenia is a serious mental disorder here on EC. EC Schizophrenia often results in combinations of delusions, and extremely disordered dysfunctional circuits that were cut and paste jobs from other dead heads. Additionally, EC schizophrenia totally impairs any reality that one may previously have assumed or have imagined to be present. It can be disabling not only for the schizophrenic EC multiple account holder, but may affect others who engage in any dialogue with the afflicted. People with schizophrenia require lifelong treatment and often benefit from a massive increase in a thorazine I/V drip.
lenzrulz
6 years ago
More waffle and nothing else, so sad...🤔
zorgrian
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
zorgrian
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
zorgrian
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
zorgrian
6 years ago
More lentiFuck, but nothing else, so sad...🤔
lenzrulz
6 years ago
@zorgrain, you can’t offend me (many have tried and all have failed) but I would suggest that you tone down your bad language rhetoric as young people also read these comments, thanking you in advance...👍
kiani
6 years ago
Dogshit and lenzrulz can not be offended.
lenzrulz
6 years ago
👍
lenzrulz
6 years ago
👍
zorgrian
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
zorgrian
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
zorgrian
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
kiani
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
zorgrian
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
zorgrian
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
kiani
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
zorgrian
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
zorgrian
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
zorgrian
6 years ago
Remember, Four variations of a basic Nmos setup. (many more variations are possible once you know how).
zorgrian
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
kiani
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
2ctiby
6 years ago
Hurz and zorgrian have tried for years to control users on EC ... their use of the kiani puppet is yet another ploy to get users under their directives ... Users beware
kiani
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
kiani
6 years ago
@2ctiby you ve been exposed baby.. Charlatan..go change your name, , 2Nian_zheoby...what a foc head and perverse jerk.
2ctiby
6 years ago
I do not intend to spend my life here bickering on EC with a know-all like hurz. ... Individuals must decide whether to be subservient to him or not ... Those who submit themselves to him will never be able to voice an opinion which contradicts his view. Then you must always abide by everything he says ... and that may well influence your life path outside EC, which in my opinion would be towards a hell hole, with his partner zorgrian and their puppet kiani.
kiani
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
2ctiby
6 years ago
The kiani mosfet library data is full of errors and is misleading to anyone who thinks that it relates to a bought mosfet. Users are advised to avoid it and consider the endless stream of kiani abuse in my informing you about it.
kiani
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
2ctiby
6 years ago
Users would be better off learning how to form their own Beta for EC mosfets as described in this presentation above here rather than using faulty data seen in the kiani library. Users also need to go to the vishay.com datasheet etc to obtain other necessary info which is not seen on the kiani library ... so users may just as well go straight to the datasheet and avoid the faulty incomplete kiani library altogether.
kiani
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
kiani
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]
kiani
6 years ago
[BLOCKED]

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