EveryCircuit - My first RL Oscillator that works

7 years ago

A creative one. This is the first time i see such an oscilliator. Great job

7 years ago

Thanks, I observed circuits that consist of transistors and how they were set up. Its pretty simple after a bit of thought, so I don't think this is a very rare circuit. It still was pretty fun making this circuit.

hurz

7 years ago

Check how C is connected and think about if its really needed. Looks like an RL relaxation oscillator

Rinat84

7 years ago

Наблюдал схему две минуты- нет генерации

jason9

7 years ago

Hmm. Interesting. Unusual. I like it. This is the first time I remember seeing an oscillator like this. People don’t usually make RL oscillators. Usually either RC or LC.

sshsslfun

7 years ago

@Rinat84 Для начала генерации требуется около 400 микросекунд, отрегулируйте масштаб времени и вернитесь к исходной шкале времени, как только она начнет работать.

sshsslfun

7 years ago

@Hurz Thanks, I thought it might do something, but after removing it, nothing changed. Thanks for the heads up.

sshsslfun

7 years ago

@jason9 Yea, not common to see an RL oscillator. People mostly upload RC and LC oscillators

Rinat84

7 years ago

@sshsslfun Спасибо за совет, регулировка скорости симуляции помогла.

sshsslfun

7 years ago

Нет проблем, рад помочь

hurz

7 years ago

Mr RL oscillator was @secuture, fortunately hes gone for a while. Anyway, @sshsslfun do not trash it, cuz also this relaxation oscillator is fun to understand why it does oscillate.

hurz

7 years ago

Here would be the momemt were Mr. 2cent might get into electronics, unfortunately he is a math guy and electronics is just his playground for arrogance.

kiani

7 years ago

The capacitors are there out of scene. Straying...

hurz

7 years ago

You mean the parasitics? Yes, they dont have much impact.

hurz

7 years ago

Make the following math check with omega². We have 135kHz and 1mH which capacitance somewere do we need for a resonance close to 135kHz? 1/(w² × 1mH) = 1.39nF ! The parasitics are 5pF so far away

kiani

7 years ago

I take your word for it. A 1mH inductor is sandwiched between teo 5pf capacitors which charge in opposit directions. It needs imagination to say the cspacitirs are not having any effect. An inductor and resistor will not resonate. Aren't two storage element required ¿! There are a few 5pf arround the in the circuit,. Unless the transistors are kept just on the verge of conduction and the inductor plays arround with that,, perhaps with the aid of paraseics. I don't know!!

hurz

7 years ago

6 are around and if we worste case concenteate them all in parallel we get 30pF parallel to 1mH makes 919kHz far away from 135kHz and they less then 30pF

hurz

7 years ago

Anyway, from discontinues behaviour you can see its a relaxation and not harmonic oscillator

hurz

7 years ago

What else for an oscillator type it could be?

kiani

7 years ago

Not sure, looks like the inductor is playing with the stored base charges, which the transistors put up resistance against, so the strays look bigger than they are. The name, i don't know maybe a messy coinsidance oscilkator.

LeButch

7 years ago

Lol, increase the voltage to about 10V and see what happens!

kiani

7 years ago

@Hurz chk. This. http://everycircuit.com/circuit/5858257997660160

hurz

7 years ago

@kiani, were does the cap suddenly comes from? Im talking about this circuit here as it is and not as it could be. What is your question to this circuit here?

kiani

7 years ago

With the cap. Switched in. the frequency is about 4khz. Which still does not tie with formulea ,,,,,,,,, (1/sqr.LC),,, so ehy should stray capacitance do (in this cct. Arrangement).!

hurz

7 years ago

5pF vs 1uF ? I dont get your point

kiani

7 years ago

Sorry not clear... Meant eith an LC, as above 1mh., 1 uf. We expect a diff. Frequency than 4 khz. But the cct. Is preventing LC. Natural behsvior.. However it has some effect.. In short trying ti draw conclusion that the cct. Would nit oscillste without stray caps. And has a major part in the oscillation of this thing. Have to do a little more investigation on calculating things arround the cct. It is (i think) behaving in a push pull fashin. Push pull oscillator..

hurz

7 years ago

Dont get your point. I think its clear what this oscillator is and anything you speculate it totaly unclear. 5pF meets 1mH, which is already from impedance quite unbalanced, and together from math they like to resonate at 2.25MHz doesn't matter how the circuit does look like

hurz

7 years ago

What is your message?

hurz

7 years ago

There are already 5pF from pin to pin in any default everycircuit BJT but what happens if we tripple this capacitance to the oscillator behaviour, almost nothing, its still a relaxation oscillator and not a harmonic one. Only the transistors are getting slower so the oscillation slows a very little down http://everycircuit.com/circuit/5223449483280384

2ctiby

7 years ago

@sshsslfun ... Nice job. My take on this... http://everycircuit.com/circuit/4934572868632576

kiani

7 years ago

@ Hurz thnx. for post cct. Link. The caps. Too small, and don't seem yo play any role in oscillation.. Am going to try and see if i can make an rrlaxation oscillator with inductor and opamp. I still think the oscillator wouldn't start without stray caps. Maybe completely wrong but think it start hormonically snd then relaxation take over. (just a hunch!)

kiani

7 years ago

@ 2ctiby. Good idea with Ameters in test circuit, they reveal point to point operation of the circuit.. Something thst might not be possible in real life. Simulation comes very useful for in depth understanding. Different views... When you look at cct. You probably see differential equations.. And snothrt person might see movements of energy... And another shades of colours. It is the interest and love that matters in the end (i say)

hurz

7 years ago

But why things keep on running is a totaly different question to way things do startup. Your concern is why this things does start?

kiani

7 years ago

I think my organic brain is going through understanding process, there are two things, one i need to confirm my understaning of relaxation osc.. 2- if can not see how a thing starts can not go further.. if s/th doesn't start, its nothing.

sshsslfun

7 years ago

Yea I have no idea what the fuck you guys are talking about, this is gonna take a month to take in and understand. Jesus thats complicated

sshsslfun

7 years ago

@2ctiby Thanks for the explanation. I'll try to understand why it happens and how I could make my own formula for such circuit, thank you and everyone here for the help in helping me understand.

2ctiby

7 years ago

@sshsslfun ... you are welcome. If you read one part at a time and view the trace which I mentioned for it, then it will all make sense. There is no maths necessary in any of that, but as a side issue, the maths for inductors is very interesting and enabled me to consider your circuit in terms of current flows.

kiani

7 years ago

@2ctiby. Your Ameters in circuit, great... Your text however demonstrates that you yourself have understood the circuit well. But after reading the 3rd or 4th line i felt like jumping out of window and relive mysrlf and alk of you of my homble existance. Anyway obviously i didn't do that, and am still here for what it is worth. This does not mean i can do better than you, nor i am claiming such. I wonder in the most homblest way possible, if it would be possible to represent all that you ssid in mathematics,, after all that is the reason for msths surly,,,, to express things in words that can not be. Maybe i would not understand the maths either but then i would go and drawn myself in maths, to try and understand.. But now i have to go and drawn myself in Shakespeare and kepler and discrete mathematics,. For example calling each colour a symbol, orange = a red = b, & so on,,, and describe the operation with maths language.... (just a thought!) BTW. Thanks for Ameter idea.

hurz

7 years ago

@kiani, dont worry, @2cent is lost in electronics he absolut understand nothing about it. He did just messed up a circuit with 4 spotpoints of current sensors. Nothing else he did. Actually this is valid for both experts here, they are lost in electronics since i told them this is a relaxation oscillator! Keep on doing your own investigations it will give you much more then this fraudster bla bla bla they both do

2ctiby

7 years ago

@kiani ... usually, I do stipulate colours for the traces, but here I needed to talk about five traces. EC can only do 4 colours at a time. When a fifth component etc is added, then all colours start changing, so the original stipulation of colour traces then becomes meaningless and confusing.... so I did not mention colours here... Just find the trace that I have talked about at each part, then follow that part carefully through... it's all I can offer. As for maths ... Some users get very upset and obnoxious when they see Maths on EC (with a view that it should not be done on EC)... it is obviously their insecurity, but it makes things very difficult when replies diversify in to hate and slanging matches away from the technical discussion.

kiani

7 years ago

Yes circuit description is not easy on EC, ( components can't be labled,,), so "i" try to avoid doing it, cause it can not be done effectively... And any attempt is like trying to climb without the right gear.. Prople in my opinion like puzells.... Puzells that teach differentials,, plus visuals... Like how easy is it to design a circuit with opamps that solves differential equation (simple one) ?!

kiani

7 years ago

The ssh.. Circuit reminds me of flikering relay oscillator, ( Relaxation)..

hurz

7 years ago

@2cent would like to color everything inclusive his own nose. But this doesn't explain anything. @2cent you better start here to understand before you color more items http://everycircuit.com/circuit/5497127282409472 here you can apply the standard formulas which do not need step 1 to 17 which does not generate anything new

kiani

7 years ago

That is why my opamp LR relaxation wouldn't work.. I put L on the wrong place!!!.. Thnx. For link @ hurz.