EveryCircuit - Emergency light

rich11292000

9 years ago

This will trip the breaker due to the ground fault. The mains is not a floating power source, it is grounded at the generator.

xor82

9 years ago

???

xor82

9 years ago

the circuit is not isolated from the network , but will shoot no breaker

rich11292000

9 years ago

A ground fault will occur. Due to the ground loop that will be created when you hook this circuit to properly grounded mains. This will cause your circuit to ground out at 30mA and bypass half of this bridge rectifier.

rich11292000

9 years ago

Hate to critisize this nice circuit, but I have to call out these grounding errors. I just installed a bigassfan that puts current on the grounded conductor. This perticular product uses a 10 volt dc with a 100k pot for speed control. Both brand new fans trip the ground faults.

rich11292000

9 years ago

So if you install this light in a warehouse you will be within mA of tripping "THE MAIN BREAKER". If installed in a wet location that requires ground fault circuitry like in a fire pump room it will immediately trip a ground fault circuit breaker.

hurz

9 years ago

Rich, this ground symbol here is not meant to be "earth ground" its just a zero volt reference point for this circuit only!

rich11292000

9 years ago

You are 100% correct and wrong at the same time. But like you say about applying circuits to real life. How about you print the diagram and send it to off for manufacturing. Is the China man going to read your instructions to know this diagram is for a simulation of every circuit. 100,000 emergency lights encased in metal suitable for use as a explosion proof fixture. Turned out to be the cause of the explosion as the first customer to dispense fuel was engulfed in flames. No product comes with a diagram of floating mains to be hooked to a grounded bridge rectifier.

hurz

9 years ago

To fix this it would need an extra symbol or even more for reference points. Suppose you have a stinky blinky two bjts and two LEDs as gimmic to manufacture in italy, do you think they are going to connect the circuit to earth ground? Again we have to live with one reference symbol and do the interpretation what it is for by ourself. Right?

rich11292000

9 years ago

So why modify what's going on in the real world? The mains are permanently referenced. I thought you still realized how stupid people are. This random reference crap is showing up on the store shelves and its tripping breakers.

hurz

9 years ago

Sorry, but you don't get the point. You can say ground is ground and this is as one can clearly see a earth ground symbol! Like a dictator. But this is not the full story e.g ground can also be a zero volt reference point in your circuit were it makes most sense for you. But this must NOT be the same potential as earth ground! Unfortunately we have only one reference symbol which must sometimes do even both jobs in one circuit. But most circuits do not reference to earth they just need a zero volt point and don't care about earth.

rich11292000

9 years ago

How do you know that they know that, you just assumed. Even though this random reference maybe a rule in your large box of knowledge from radio electronics, it is the opposite when it comes to dangerous voltages. Your rules apply for expensive transistors, so what if it burns. Terminal voltage is never to be misrepresented and left to self interpretation.

hurz

9 years ago

Yes, if he is stupid enough to place a earth ground at that point he will blow at least one diode of its rectifier. But if he sees it as best place to analyse any voltages within its circuit BJT part, he placed a zero volt reference at the best place. But maybe in his country they dont even have earth ground on the last mile to households. We dont know and continue to be nasty ;-)

xor82

9 years ago

The ground is a 0 volts necessary for the circuit simulation , it is certainly not the earthing of the system . As I said , the circuit is not isolated from 220V , in fact there is a capacitico adapter , which uses the capacitor reactance for decrease tension . Sorry for my english.

hurz

9 years ago

As zero volt reference its absolut ok to put it anywere in circuit you like it most. Yes, its not isolated and NOT galvanic speparated. So this kind of circuits is highly dangerous. You know that?

xor82

9 years ago

Yes i kown. But today, these circuits do exist.

hurz

9 years ago

BTW, 230V are in peak 325V. The peak voltage is a factor of 1.414 higher then the rms voltage.

xor82

9 years ago

Yes, right.